Wednesday, October 29, 2008

fewer abortions

Cocoa posted about her thoughts on abortion today and I was going to leave a comment but decided to write my own post instead.

I want to make it clear that I do not believe in the "right to choose" as far as terminating a pregnancy goes, except in the cases rape, incest, or the life of the mother. Cocoa quotes Russel M. Nelson (see the entire article), an apostle of our church on this and I agree whole-heartedly with what he says here:

When the controversies about abortion are debated, “individual right of choice” is invoked as though it were the one supreme virtue. That could only be true if but one person were involved. The rights of any one individual do not allow the rights of another individual to be abused. In or out of marriage, abortion is not solely an individual matter. Terminating the life of a developing baby involves two individuals with separate bodies, brains, and hearts. A woman’s choice for her own body does not include the right to deprive her baby of life—and a lifetime of choices that her child would make.

I agree with Cocoa that just because something is legal, it doesn't make it right. However, whether or not you agree with Roe v. Wade, that's what we have. It's a legal precedent of over three decades. I don't believe there will ever be an overturn of this precedent because most Americans do not want that. So, I'm not interested in talking about Roe v. Wade. However, we would all like to see the number of abortions reduced, right? Why are we not talking about that? Since there isn't going to be an overturn of Roe v. Wade, why are politicians not talking about ways to reduce abortion? I'll tell you why. It's because liberals don't want to give the impression to voters that they favor restricting abortion rights in any way. Conservatives don't want to give the impression that they are committed to anything "less" than an overturn. Liberals are stuck on defending Roe v. Wade and conservatives on attacking it.

This is what hurts our country: polemics. Why can't we get over attacking other people's positions and get down to solving problems in a practical way?


Chocolate on my Cranium said...

You bring up some great points! This is one issue that people of either party refuse to budge even a little to find some middle ground. I do believe abortion should be reverted back to a state issue - letting the voters of a state decide whether or not it is legal. I also believe it should still be legalized but only for the sake of those you've listed who really do need it, in cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother.

Thanks for participating today!

Gabriela said...

I like your point of view- Roe vs. Wade isn't going anywhere, so what can we do to improve the situation? Sometimes people get so all-or-nothing and black-and-white-and not to sound freakishly religous, but I think Satan really likes things to stay that way.

Thanks for always bringing up meaningful topics (talking about things I'm to chicken to bring up on my blog!).

Anonymous said...

Barak Obama did say in the last debate that nobody wants abortion, and that we should be working on limiting the number of abortions. I appreciated that statement. I also thought it interesting that he stated that he was not in favor of redefining marriage, and that marriage was between a man and woman and all that.
Reading a link on Nestles blog I found a letter that was supposedly written by Obama to someone in California stating that he was behind the fight for gay marriage, and supported that cause.
See, you can't trust any of them.

Mama Ava said...

"See, you can't trust any of them." Or maybe you can't trust a lot of what is written about them. Of course you find anything that shows a politician pandering or waffling."

I don't think all liberals completely defend RvW or that all conservatives want it overturned. I know a lot of Republicans that are not interested in seeing RvW overturned. And some Democrats who are Christians who believe that those rulings should be severely restricted. That's why I consider the abortion debate a non-issue in many cases. It's been used as a litmus test for so long that it really doesn't tell you much about a candidate other than on that one issue.

But I think you can be opposed to capital punishment and still want the murder rate reduced. You can not believe in global warming but still want to keep our planet clean and healthy. You can support a right to choose and still want the abortion rate to be close to 0%

An Ordinary Mom said...

I have never been to your site before today, but I must admit I have found all your recent "political" posts very enlightening. I readily enjoyed reading the discussions that followed your posts. It is refreshing to see people advocate their viewpoint in a manner that doesn't attack others. I get so tired of people from one extreme blasting people from the other extreme and thinking that they have no testimony if they believe the other way.

The world we live in is not black and white and therefore it is hard to say that there is only one right way to run a society. Not all socialist ideas are satanic and neither are all capitalistic ideas. Can't we just find the best of anything and everything and work from there? Aren't we taught to find the common ground of others and to start there?

I am also glad you posted about the Brother Brown and Brother Benson debate. And I am curious, once President Benson became the prophet, did he continue to slam socialism and communism?

Andrea said...

I have to say that I love the political discussion that takes place on your blog. It is so nice to see things from differing points of view. I agree with Cocoa that this is an item, like many others the Federal Government tries to meddle in, that should be left in the hands of the states.

Anonymous said...

So, are you looking to be a write-in candidate?

Anonymous said...

Okay, I just read Ave's comment. Ya know, I was seriously considering Obama for a while, but when talking to a friend of mine, I found out he voted for live abortion. That just about did it. I don't care what his economic ideas are, I just can't vote for a man that heartless. I mean, there's even an argument for abortion before the baby's born, although I disagree with it, but to take a fully-born baby and just leave it to die of exposure (or any other method) is just not okay with me.

Karen ~ said...

Mallory, please do more research on what you just wrote about. No one will ever bring about a birth of a viable baby and let it die. There are laws about this already, and Obama does not oppose those laws.

The votes that have led to the confusion are highly politicized based on definitions of key terms, and interpretation of existing laws, and considerations of differneces between state and federal laws. (it's outlined pretty clearly on

Please look at everything that is known about this man. I'm not urging you to vote for him if he is not the right candidate for you, but please don't believe - or say - he is in favor of killing live infants, no matter what the circumstances of the birth. That is just not true.

Anonymous said...

Yes I think that live abortion story is just more propaganda.

Again when people discuss freedom of choice they are forgetting what the world was like when abortion was illegal.During the depression women with 10 or 11 kids who couldn't feed them were thrown in jail for having an abortion. It is very much a personal decision and a complex problem. There are too many abortions and there must be something done but simply making it illegal is not a solution. That only creates more problems. I wish the parties would get together and have a really good discussion about it and stop the propaganda crap.

Anonymous said...

During the debates Obama said that he didn't vote against late term abortion because there was no clause for the health of the mother. You can't tell me that there are many situations that this would be an issue. They could do a cesarian or something. When is it in the best interest of the mother to cut a baby out. Please. I think that is what gets people the most fired up about the late term issue. If they had put a clause in the bill concerning the health of the mother he still wouldn't have voted for it, and I think it naive to think he would have. Most liberals just want abortion to be an option for birth control.

Anonymous said...

Correction, I meant that Obama didn't vote for the ban on late term abortion, meaning the bill that was presented a couple of years ago.

Karen ~ said...

Here are a couple of blogs I have read recently on this topic, both written by women who have been in medical situations where this discussion, which thankfully for all of us is hypothetical and theoretical, was real.

Ave, I consider myself a liberal, and consider the vast majority of my friends and family members to be liberal, and I was hurt by your generalization that "most liberals just want abortion to be an option for birth control."

I agree completely with Calandria that working to limit the number of abortions needed, requested and performed should be a top priority. As Obama said, nobody is 'pro-abortion.' When I read these two women's blogs I was made aware of how critical and difficult and horrible the choice can be, but I was thankful that these women had the legal right to have some say in their medical care. These are the women who should be kept foremost in your mind when you think about the question of whether or not abortion should be kept legal.

(sorry to take so much space Calandria, I guess I should have written my own post, too.)

Anonymous said...

I had have a cousin who was diagnosed with an aggressive brain tumor in the middle of her pregancy. They aborted her baby in order to race against time and the tumor. She lost life.

I had another cousin who tried to give herself an abortion. She survived and went on to have more children.

I maintain abortion laws should be maintained by each state. For any other reason than life of the mother, rape or incest, abortion is wrong.

Barack Obama says he wouldn't want to see his daughter "punished with a child" for making a poor decision. I maintain that the child conceived from a poor decision shouldn't lose it's life. Accept responsibility for the "poor decision" by giving your child life and loving adoptive parents.

Anonymous said...

I am sorry for having offended anyone who considers themselves a liberal. It is not the first time my frankness has offended, and probably won't be the last.
I do generalize people who are extreme into groups, as many of them do themselves. People who call themselves Progressives or Liberals, are extremists to me, as are people who call themselves Right wing Conservatives. I think both are unfortunate in their limited vision. This is just my opinion and not meant to offend.
I feel fortunate to blog with you ladies, and appreciate the open discussion!

Mike & Mal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mike & Mal said...

I've posted a response on my blog that has the extended research Karen opted for. Thanks for the suggestion!